I only did 60 Hz. I played it on a 1080p TV (i.e. what it’s designed for) and it looks perfectly fine. Also, it has twice the pixels as 540p even in worst case scenarios. It looks nothing like what a 540p image stretched by a 2x factor in both dimensions would look like, which is what the suggestion was…
Ok cool, so you haven’t seen how rough it can look at 120Hz. And yes it’s close to a 540p IQ, the temporal AA and reconstruction do very little to clean up the IQ, it’s a rather muddy image. I’m speaking from experience here.
I’ve seen videos showing direct feed gameplay of that mode (posted in this thread) and am watching it on a 1080p monitor from 18 inches away, lol. Were you playing it on a 1080p screen at 120 Hz?
You can see in the videos it looks perfectly fine. I guess you forgot what 540p games actually look like wrt IQ? Halo does not ever look like what you are suggesting. If your views are informed by looking at how it looks on a high res monitor, that is not very germane to what you are saying.
I played on a 1440p monitor and it still looked rough. My point is it looks nothing close to a 1080p image like you were suggesting because 1080p still looks great on my monitor, this does not. Hell, 540p to 1080p using DLSS looks MUCH better than what Halo does. It’s nowhere near a 1080p IQ and that’s my point. I don’t need to play it on an exact 1080p monitor or TV to tell you that.
I’d say we should reserve judgement for when the final build is out, I’m impressed overall with the stable 120fps on the series s, yes resolution is lower and can be worked on but let 343 show the final build first. This was more to tweak gameplay, find bugs, and get overall feedback on the systems in place.
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Well the good news is that this was an old build so hope they optimize the Series S experience quite a bit. Its a fine console but these lower bounds need to be minimized and maximize Image quality I reckon particularly coming from an Xbox first party game.
Xbox One X doing better image quality than the S at this moment no?
For sure, I’m not so much judging the game but this build in particular and pushing back on the notion that it looks anywhere close to a 1080p IQ in 120Hz mode.
Yeah the One X has a better IQ at the moment but it’s running at a quarter or half the frame rate. So different targets really. The One X does look like it may have a performance mode, so it’ll be interesting to see if that targets 60fps on the final build and how that looks compared to the 60fps mode on the Series S. I honestly can’t imagine them hitting 60fps on jaguar CPUs but who knows, maybe they’ll surprise us.
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If you are viewing it on a 4k screen and/or a 1440p screen, you are still stretching the image out before it gets to your eye. Why base personal impressions about IQ on that when that version is designed for 1080p screens? That makes no sense.
Can you post the screen you got where it showed 540p res on 120fps mode for XSS for your pixel counting? At no point in any of the vids in this thread does it ever approach what 540p stretched to 1080p looks like, even in spots with fps dips where you’d expect it to have its lowest internal res.
You are effectively claiming that having twice the pixels (it scales differently based on axis) + reconstruction don’t really accomplish anything, which doesn’t make any sense. To bolster that implication using personal experience premised on a stretched out image on a higher res screen is not very compelling imho.
Btw, DLSS has nothing to do with Halo, so not sure why you’d mention it…? o.0
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. You were implying earlier that the IQ is close to 1080p because that’s what it reconstructs up to. I’m saying that is wrong. Stretching or not, I know what a 1080p image looks like on my monitor and Halo looks nothing like that, not even close.
You think this image looks anywhere close to a 1080p IQ?
I’m only mentioning it because you brought into the conversation when you posted the Control image.
Edit: looks like the sight compresses the image when sharing it on the thread. Even with the compression you can clearly count the pixels to 960x540p.
But I never said it looked like native 1080p internal rendering. I said the final output on screen post-reconstruction has the same pixel density as a 1080p image bc it does. When the internal res is lower, the reconstruction has more artifacting and looks worse, but the pixel density is unaffected. What you are referring to is the artifacts. Notice how the HUD is crystal clear since the game renders it at higher internal res than the game world, thus it doesn’t have the artifacts.
And Control is not Halo. Did you read that post? I was explaining to the person asking questions how internal res is no longer the singular metric of importance wrt IQ. It is pretty clear what the context is in that post. Your sample image doesn’t look anything like a 540p game btw. I don’t mean it doesn’t have 540p internal res (though even then, Halo doesn’t since it has anisotropic res scaling), I mean the resulting image on screen does not resemble what games actually outputting at 540p look like at all. Which was my point.
I give up lol That is clearly a 540p image. You can count the pixels very easily. That is a final output that is not 1080p, which is my point. I don’t understand how you can shit on other games that use reconstruction, but think the IQ is fine here. It’s very rough at 120Hz.
The TAA treats the final IQ in that image much more so than the recontruction because you can see clear sub-1080p edges in that picture. Meaning the reconstruction isn’t doing anything for the final IQ.
The game doesn’t scale both axes the same. And the reconstructed image always is 1080p wrt pixel density as that is the target and they aren’t doing bilinear scaling after reconstruction. If you go find actual screenshots of old games at 540p, you will see a HUGE difference in IQ b/t them and Halo here.
Do a pixel count of that image and then think about this post. If this were true, you wouldn’t get a clear 940x540p count from that image. This image shows that it’s not “always” 1080p regarding pixel density. Did you even look at the image?
Yes I saw the image. I just told you I did. Did you even read the post you are replying to here?
Yeah and it shows your claim of a 1080p pixel density to be incorrect. That has been my point. The proof is right there. The TAA makes more of a difference than the reconstruction technique, at least at this lower resolution and in the end it just looks blurry.
No it doesn’t. What you are seeing is the output image after reconstruction from a low res internal render. You are not seeing the internal render scaled to 1080p via stretching. When the internal res is low, there are lots of artifacts bc the reconstruction algorithm has too few pixels to sample to construct info to fill the gaps. You are seeing those artifacts. The pixel density is still the same as a native 1080p render has, but with artifacts the IQ is worsened. It still is miles ahead of any actual 540p native render in a videogame.
This is what a 540p game looks like (zoom in to 200% so it’s making up the full 1080p screen to compare it to your Halo screenshot):
The implication of what you are arguing is that the reconstruction literally doesn’t occur in Halo, which is false.
Switching topics to evangelize a bit more about machine learning (heh), this is really neat stuff!
I wonder if there could be gaming use cases for this sorta thing in the future. More example scenes here: NeX Supplementary material
Demos available at the link too btw, runs in browser.
The argument is not about the resolution the game is rendered at but final image quality. And to me it’s quite clear that final IQ on series S takes a large hit to make 120FPS as you’d expect. However it’s also quite clear that via TAA and reconstruction the final IQ is way above what you’d get from 540p in 2004 say…so yeah it isn’t about numbers but just about the final IQ. It’s rendering the same pixels seemingly as One S but at 120FPS. Quite a feat for a sub £250 machine.
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This. They are delivering 4x the framerate as 1S, at higher settings, with some extra settings that are not present on1S such as SSR, and despite the similar base resolution the extra gpu grunt allows for better reconstruction tech that also makes the IQ better.
Still, direct ML reconstruction can’t come soon enough for Xbox
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I never said the reconstruction doesn’t occur in Halo, I said it falls apart. Let’s not put words in my mouth.
Let’s also try not talking down to other people when there are 540p edges clearly stretched to 1080p in the image I provided.
I’m also not saying the game is strictly a 540p game, just that it looks nowhere as clean as a 1080p image.