Well said I will say though that Xbox has always listened and now thinking about it there is a lot that might have gone into this that was unexpected like the FTC and other regulators, future intentions. I don’t think this is just about money as I don’t see that much coming from Sony or Nintendo. SOT at just above a million is cool but isn’t exactly blowing up like one would imagine. There is probably more at play here that will probably come into effect with their NextGen platform let’s just hope they don’t murk things up too much before then.
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There may be many reason’s for the decisions being made but optically they are coming across in a very bad and weak.
Yes many can point to the financials ie profit being made etc but isn’t going to mean much if your brand is virtually torched in the process eventually people will give up on it.
There’ll always be the loyal die hards that will be there through thick and thin but for a company that is seemingly obsessed with the bottom line (money) will it be enough.
I will use the analogy of my football/soccer team
In 2001 we were 1 game away from the biggest club match in world football the champions league final so 90 minutes away from being able to compete for the best team in Europe.
Almost exactly 3 years later after financially imploding and having a complete fire sale of players (games in Xbox’s case) may 2004 we were relegated to the division below 3 years after that we relegated to the division below that so in 6 years we’d dropped from the best in Europe to 3rd tier of the English league system, seen player after player sold with very little hope and that resulted in crowds dropping dramatically (look it up on wiki it’s got its own page doing a Leeds)
And that is similar to how I see Xbox, it was riding high on the back of the 360 and mismanagement has set it back years, running around putting out fires selling a player (porting a game) to get the next debt solved the case of Xbox the money men at Microsoft.
And this has had a negative effect on what actually matters to everyone what happens on the pitch and PR. Crowds dropped dramatically. People gave up seeing everything crumble, wasn’t worth them putting theirselves through it over and over again
I saw the same arguments on weekly basis at Leeds, where people would protest about the club was being run and there were many saying similar in response. Saying support the team or f**k off home and didn’t want to engage in anything against the owners of the club as it was deteriorating around us, just in blind hope things would improve, it took 16 years to get back to premier league in 2020!!!
Microsoft are either totally ignorant to how they are being perceived online or they don’t care.
I believe it’s the latter they don’t care and this is where I hope they have a plan to see through the brand being damaged without the main men at the top deciding it’s not worth it to them.
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I see it a lot differently. First, I think the console industry is behind. Even if Xbox sold 100 million or more consoles, they would still resort to this simply because Xbox has now become a core Microsoft business. Microsoft’s core businesses generate around 30 to 40 percent profit margins something PlayStation and Nintendo don’t even combined. The business thing is just edging it faster. Phil Spencer has said for a long time that they want to grow the business and the industry. The scenario I think they’re working towards is a digital ecosytem and platform as Phil said recently that it is getting harder to subsidize the console which I thinkis why they’re not selling more cos they aren’t making more. They lose if we are to believe between 100 to 200 dollars per console and the leaked document confirmed this where it was seen they spent 5 to 6 billion subsidizing the consoles. I would think their next platform would be a blue print for other partners to make their own Xbox seeing it would be digital and they would open the walled garden allowing other stores. They would also push for one format like with movies and build their games for that format maybe even just for their store which would be linkable to other stores to sell in there like Ubisoft does with Steam or they do with their sub on Xbox. This way Xbox might focus on an Xbox OS that brings in their store. I also think the handheld could be something they hope could be an answer to smart phones or AI. This of course could all backfire like your scenario explains but I think it’s one they will at least try.
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Yeah the last four years have had some real questionable decisions from Microsoft. Xbox was selling every console it put on the shelves here in America for two years almost. In theory the US console sales between Xbox and PS5 should’ve been tied that entire time, or Microsoft should’ve been out producing them to get an easy lead…. However what Microsoft chose to do was let Sony outbid chip makers and out produce them.
Then there’s Gamepass, in theory they should have the app on Roku and every other smart device not named PlayStation by now AND with a free trial And a low price around $10 a month… however in practice they are opting for a slow case by case roll out of their premier app while at the same time making it too expensive for most casuals to want to try it out. Gamepass should still be in “growth mode” with it’s pricing in my opinion.
Just those two moves alone make me question their will to compete.
You can’t magic up an app that works everywhere, especially when capacity in a major issue.
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I was legitimately surprised how well the Amazon Fire Stick App works. I was expecting the worst with how long it took to reach consumers. It’s a console like experience. At least they put that 4 years of programming to good use. Maybe in 2028 they will have the Roku app ready and in 2032 they can have the AppleTV App ready 
Yeah, the development efforts for the apps are pretty bad, I still think they haven’t expanded the tv version further than the Samsung tvs from the year it was announced for yet.
It isnt. They told regulators case by case before the purchase was complete.
After the purchase Phil told Xbox gamers the games would be exclusive to places where game pass is
Not only that, now they’re porting non Bethesda games like Sea of Thieves, Grounded and Pentiment which werent even under consideration…so its even worse.
Phil misled Xbox gamers. No question. People were told to buy Xboxs on the notion these games would only be on these consoles.
Reprehensible behaviour from a first party. I see they are already trying to paint it as a benefit and kumbyah.
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FFS, developers want as many people as possible to play their games - “reprehensible” is a bit strong particularly as development on this game started before the purchase so they already expected to release everywhere.
They really don’t give a crap about console wars and nor should they - platform competition is for the higher ups and marketing teams, not the dev teams.
Attacks on developers and their colleagues due to console wars really is one of the worst parts of gaming - no one should be berated or stalked online simply for doing their job, but it’s something that’s happened to too many studios
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Capacity is a thing. There is only so much Xbox consoles in the cloud can do. I don’t think they have enough to put cloud on every device, it’s one reason they are partnering with other cloud providers like Nvidia and Boosteroid.
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Doesnt matter. Xbox leadership made a commitment to Xbox owners and owners to be and they broke it and now they’re reveling in their dishonesty.
There isnt a war or competition as long as Xbox keeps handing over the goods to other platforms for zero recompense.
Then they shouldn’t sound so enthused nor guilt trip fans with “Why would you want fewer people to play the game?” to cover their deception.
Xbox has the strongest first party that ever was and it couldnt be more of a laughing stock thanks to these manouevers…actually it could once they start bring Halo and Forza over…which they will and they will sell it with the same line of “more people”.
If they really want more people to play the games, kill off Xbox hardware and only be third party. Eliminating it as a competing standard will simplify the buying process.
This is about greed.
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Yeah, true. You have to admit it’s a slow rollout though. Microsoft claims it wants the Gamepass subscribers but doesn’t want to make enough consoles or servers to actually get the subscribers. It wouldn’t really effect me (since cloud is more of just a tech enthusiast curiosity to me) however they keep raising the price of Gamepass. 
Gamepass is an expensive app with limited reach that isn’t available on the most popular smart TVs or smart streaming devices.
Who is Gamepass even for anymore? It certainly isn’t the casuals . And the hardcore gamers buy other non Gamepass games and the price makes me question why I’m paying for such an expensive service when I’m playing College Football, Star Wars Outlaws, Hitman Quest VR soon, Astrobot Ps5 soon, then finally around Halloween I will have Call of Duty then Indiana Jones. There are a lot of dead zones that make it hard to justify the high cost of Gamepass sometimes.
I genuinely don’t understand this notion of developers want this and that how gamers seem to bow to them.
If I’m not mistaken they are paid & employed by Microsoft their wishes should be the last thing that is considered.
Just as they are in any other industry
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That’s my point - developers do as their employer demands, they’re happy if lots of people can play what they make, it’s on the higher ups not on them
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You’re attacking the developers like they have any say over it - they don’t make these decisions, the heads of Xbox and of Microsoft do.
You may be unhappy at the direction Xbox is going, but criticism should be kept to the company in general or at worst the executives in charge.
The individual developers just do as they’re told - and obviously they’re happy if their games get a wider audience, particularly if their remuneration is tied to the market performance of their games
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They have say over how they respond in interviews. In this case fist pumping that the games going to be on PS5 and “more people can play it” is effectively calling the Xbox userbase inadequate…even though boss Phil says the xbox console market has never been higher, never made as much profit and revenue and yet none of this is worth 6 months exclusivity, let alone indefinite like it is on other consoles.
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There is definitely a disparity in now MS and Xbox view their future, and how many fans view the brand currently, and it’s pretty obvious why each would feel this way.
MS sees the numbers, understands the forecasts for all machines and the console industry in general. They view these products and teams as their investments and are planning a profitable future. They are interested in keeping the brand alive and to keep making money from it.
Consumers are worried about their investment into the Xbox ecosystem and are worried they made the wrong pick. They could have very well bought a PlayStation (or PC) to access Xbox games and get access to a bunch more exclusives from Sony and 3rd parties that opted to skip the Xbox.
I agree with the idea that we aren’t seeing much from Xbox to address the concerns of consumers. There is talk about growing the business (meaning to increase revenue and profits) but that doesn’t really matter to the consumer. Xbox’s messaging on moves like this has to be more focused on the consumer.
I would think that there should be consensus on the idea of that this rollout hasn’t gone very smoothly with the fans. Disregarding the leaks from earlier in the year, and even if the most recent leak (that is the title of this thread) didn’t happen: the way in which Indy was announced for the PS5 simply didn’t make sense from so many angles. But here I’m specifically speaking to the angle of having the Xbox consumer think that they could have bought a PS5 for Sony and Xbox exclusives.
Things have to be spelled out. Like the idea that Indy selling well on all available platforms will help justify sequels and expansions into other IP-based games, all of which will be available day one on Game Pass. That games like Sea of Thieves hitting the PS5 means more players to play with online, and again, the increased likelihood of a sequel. (I personally wouldn’t mind Halo Infinite online hitting other platforms for this reason.)
And because they have to be spelled out it would have served Xbox better to announce this on their own terms with their leadership explaining how it benefits Xbox gamers. Having Geoff announce it doesn’t give them that opportunity.
The other way to retain consumer confidence is to market the platform itself, doubling down on the benefits of gaming on the Xbox (the superior controller, the implementation of discord, the Quick Resume feature which makes Xbox gaming even better than PC gaming, and a low barrier to entry for current gen SSD gaming with this Series S).
Consumers want to know that they’ve bet on the right horse with their hard earned money. Developers want to see a strong and healthy userbase.
I realize that people will dismiss this desire to see Xbox consoles remaining relevant through a healthy userbase as console war nonsense but I think we have to all appreciate the fact that this has been going on since the beginning of capitalist competition with mass consumerism. Whether it’s Dodge versus Chevy, Marvel versus DC, or Hoover versus Dyson. Brand power, prestige, and relevance always have been areas that companies need to address for a healthy business.
I find this disparity, especially in this case, between the corporation and consumers to be pretty interesting.
I do think that the manner in which this Indy news was rolled out is worthy of discussion, analysis, and both praise and criticism.
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TBH the whole “developers want as many people to play their games” narrative only seem to crop up fairly recently. I remember the opposite being said just a few years ago. Particularly when with the Bethesda purchase. Hey that can very much be the case though…but then why do “certain platforms” miss out on multiplatform games then if devs want their stuff everywhere! The narratives are ever changing and so fast, it’s hard to keep up.
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Most creators want as many people to consume their creations as possible. It doesn’t necessarily mean the folks controlling the budget agree though.
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