Games Analysis |OT| Time To Argue About Pixels And Frames!

Those rumored PlayStation 5 Pro specs are decent at best. Sony’s internal studios will get the most out of that hardware as expected but I don’t see third party publishers letting their developers spend more money, time and resources to max out the PS5 Pro when it will most likely sell in the 5-8m range at best.

On a side note -

What are the chances that Microsoft goes with 24GB of RAM for their next generation console in 2028? I can’t be the only one that believes 16GB of RAM simply isn’t enough even now let alone five years from now.

Haha, 2028 is a long way away to be even thinking about that :stuck_out_tongue:

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Game looks excellent as is.

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I agree on Xbox series x but it looks awful on series s.

FH5 lighting is a direct capture from the mexican sky. FM is all simulated.

FH5 also only has 12 cars in a race, FM has 24 :woman_shrugging:

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Both games look great at the end of the day and it really isn’t worth arguing about the results. The main issues with FM for me, are the sterile presentation/SP mode, and cumbersome menu. Seeing it up against GT really drove it home, and I hope they’re working on an overhaul as a priority. The car purchase/upgrade menu is especially baffling, as FH nails that, in letting you move the camera around the car to get a better view.

You are asking way to earlier for this. More then half of the gen is left.

They should at the very least double it to 32Gigs for 4k texture and RT headroom.

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It’s clear Larian is not done with the Xbox version. Was hoping that with all the optimisation being done meant Xbox would be the best of the console versions, but it’s not there yet.

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It’s fine, even more of a reason for me to wait to buy it.

I’m already in the if your game is $70 for the vanilla version I won’t buy it til it’s $40.

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Larian still uses dx11, this port was never going to be good at launch.

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I agree. John knew what he was doing and the comparison wasn’t fair and done to make GT7 look better.

Pretty disappointing showing from Larian especially after all the “optimizations boasting” from them, inferior IQ and lower frame-rates in the most demanding area of the game. I am trying to think of any reason (hardware wise that is) on why the SX version is the way it is when compared to PS5 and I can’t think of any logical explanation especially in a CPU demanding game like this…maybe the difference in speeds in the SX memory pool affecting the performance? besides not having the time to optimize further or being a DX11 game (as Jesse mentioned) I can’t think of anything else that makes sense. :thinking:

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Its strictly because of how Larian coded it, using DX11. They are essentially coding at an Xbox One level.

DX11 is not as CPU friendly as DX12 for AMD hardware. It doesnt include any hardware features from the past DECADE!

Direct X 11 api is from 2009. Direct X 12 api is from 2015. Direct X Realtime RayTracing (DXR 1.0) is from 2018. The Direct. X 12 Ultimate api is from 2020.

The Ultimate moniker is for standardizing previously optional hardware features and introducing some new ones.

Microsoft revealed DirectX 12 Ultimate in March 2020. DirectX 12 Ultimate will unify to a common library on both Windows 10 computers and the Xbox Series X and other ninth-generation Xbox consoles. Among the new features in Ultimate includes DirectX Raytracing 1.1, Variable Rate Shading, which gives programmers control over the level of detail of shading depending on design choices, Mesh Shaders, and Sampler Feedback

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But surely it’s something they can and hopefully will improve with upcoming patches? Or is that impossible to tell?

Does XBS even support DX11? I would have figured they’d have to have ported to DX12 and (probably) didn’t do a great job in the rush they were in.

Larian needs to refactor their graphics rendering subsystem for PC and Xbox consoles. It is not a trivial undertaking. They could attempt a direct straight port but that would not provide all the benefits. It’s just short of rewrite. It’s something they should have done from the start.

This is what Asobo did for Flight Simulator for PC before they could even entertain porting FS to Series consoles. The initial BETA release for DX12 actually performed worse in DX12 than DX11, but over time they’ve improved it where DX12 performs better. They’ve also added more functionality such as DLSS to improve it further.

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I’m pretty sure it’s what nearly all the Xbox One games run – so the Series consoles running last-generation games that use DX11.

For Xbox One generation, there was something about games being in development with older SDKs not having the best implementation of the DX layer. From my foggy memory, it was somewhere near the two year mark that One titles received further improvements. I can’t recall exactly if it was the SMASH layer that takes the DirectX API and Drivers and translates it into a flatter more direct hardware layer or if the improvements were in the GPU Drivers. Realistically it was probably a mix of both, seeing how PC titles get performance boosts from newer GPU Drivers.

Footnotes:

[ Raising the Bar with Direct3D - Windows Developer Blog ]

We are very excited that with the launch of Xbox One, we can now bring the latest generation of Direct3D 11 to console. The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality.

[ Hot Chips 2020 Live Blog: Microsoft Xbox Series X System Architecture (6:00pm PT) ]

Q: Are you happy as DX12 as a low hardware API?

A: DX12 is very versatile - we have some Xbox specific enhancements that power developers can use. But we try to have consistency between Xbox and PC. Divergence isn’t that good. But we work with developers when designing these chips so that their needs are met. Not heard many complains so far (as a silicon person!). We have a SMASH driver model. The games on the binaries implement the hardware layed out data that the GPU eats directly - it’s not a HAL layer abstraction. MS also re-writes the driver and smashes it together, we replace that and the firmware in the GPU. It’s significantly more efficient than the PC.

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Thanks for the thorough explanation. And one more thing regarding this… what is the reason it performs better on PS5?

They’re using PS’s latest graphics library. So pretty much they’re letting a substantial portion of the Xbox console hardware (and PC hardware too) sit idle / unused. Where as it’s being used on PS hardware.

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