Good eye.
Okay, gotcha. So basically people bitching over what amounts to nothing. SMH.
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Yup, pretty much! But itâs Xbox, so itâs pretty much the norm to be bitching on everything made by first party studios.
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Surprised itâs so much more performant overall on Xbox in the 120hz mode. Great release all around.
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I am a little disappointed itâs only 1440P 60 FPS on Series S. It could be 120 FPS though like Ori.
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Sorry for being late about this but I finally watched the Forza Motorsport vs Gran Turismo 7 video, as I was pretty much anticipating everything that would be said about the two games, but I wasnât expecting that much bias⌠I was saying to myselft that John wouldnât use the Performance RT mode in Forza to compare the two, or only for making a point about RT being taxing, especially when aiming for constant 60 FPS gameplay. And then I thought that if I was making a case against Forza, I would do exactly that and thatâs exactly what he did !
How can you compare a Performance mode at 60 FPS WITH Ray Tracing and a Replay mode at 30 FPS or gameplay at 60 FPS with NO Ray Tracing ?
Look at this :
He used a short clip to show the difference between 120 FPS mode and Visuals at 30 FPS. Here at 30 FPS, FM looks miles better than GT7 at 120 FPS. Of course it looks way better. Resolution is equally important when using RT. And 30 FPS FM is really how the game should look.
And even the cars in GT7 gameplay look out of place because of the hyper realistic lighting. I guess itâs a matter of taste, but John shouldnât be this oblivious to ligthing technics. GT7 look washed out and too shiny.
FM car looks more accurate with proper lighting and shadows.
And from what I can tell, John didnât set HDR properly⌠Thereâs an issue with the HDR setting in Forza Motorsport on Xbox and I can see that from his captures.
Also, even real cars donât look shiny. Car paint can look flat in some lighting conditions.
I want to demonstrate that the discussion about the two games which are both super good looking games is biased from the start. You canât really compare them because of the different modes and technics used. And itâs no one faults, but it should have been clarified from the start when making the video.
Seeing John trying to make a point and looking at both games while showing Forza Motorsport in the most infavourable light (Perfomance mode + HDR not set properly) had me rolling my eyes. Itâs so unfair and nitpicky.
And I want to agree with him on the better attention to details from the Gran Turismo team, but without going so hard against Forza. Textures and details have a cost that doesnât always translate to better visuals or gameplay.
I recently switch playing with Performance RT to Visuals at 30 FPS and the game looks way better with better IQ and all the RT features enabled and itâs still playable with some motion blur wizardry. Itâs not perfect, but it makes the difference for me.
I feel like RT on console is not ready yet and too taxing and Forza is paying the price of that. But if they can achieve this with all the bells and whistles at 60 FPS on the next Xbox, the game will blow peopleâs mind.
How the game looks on my console in photo mode with HDR set properly and itâs just as good in motion :
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Great read! I do think they went a bit too harsh on Forza and at the end of the day, the way Forza looks more grounded in reality imo and GT7 more stylized is just how they were designed. I just feel like since they are aiming for a simulation, itâs shouldnât be pushing what GT is doing and I think Turn 10 is doing it the right way and I really enjoy the visuals in FM. I was actually very impressed the first time I booted the game, so races actually feel like real life to me at times.
Iâm actually also super grateful for the RT implementation in the game. As much as it can be taxing, itâs a feature we were promised so much this gen that Iâm glad they pushed for it and showed it was possible, even in performance mode!
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Why do you think I was making the assessment that DFâs analysis on this (and honestly everything else at this point) should be disregarded. Not just because of the fact that itâs inherently a bad-faith, and fundamentally flawed comparison, but due to the fact that you could argue that the entire comparison was made in bad-faith to intentionally âmake the caseâ for said bias (seeing the documented and self-admitted bias against Xbox - itâs not just the old Gaf/Era histories of individuals - is pretty easy to argue via said evidence). Self-fulfilling prophecy being projected as âanalysisâ.
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the problem is that with pushing rt so much the game is not great graphically as we were expecting to be by its pre launch trailers because they had to cut corners to be able to sustain 60fps on current consoles. And even worse the series s version is looking like trash.
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Sadly, itâs true, without RT, the game look subpar. Worse than FM 7 I would say.
The game has been pushing RT from the start, but they had to make sacrifices to make it work. The game released a gen too early in my opinion. Some textures and geometry, especially around tracks, look rough.
With time, the game will shine. Gameplay is still top tier.
yeah thats why i still play this game because the driving model is excellent. But we all know it has its issues graphically and gameplay wise.
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There is no excuse for the PC version not to be perfect. They should use the PC as a showcase.
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Totally agree. They are biased and they donât even know it. We all are to be honnest.
I think John wouldnât even pass his own Name the game test. Thereâs something more to it. People just see some screenshot who look shiny and attribute it to their own prefered franchise but canât process being wrong.
HDR and RT can make game look very different and make you think that it looks bad although itâs more accurate.
John analyzing his own captures is funny because he knows which game is which. And he specifically chose the mode on FM where you can see the differences even on a phone screen.
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I wonder, since this is going to be GAAS from my understanding, if they decided that it would evolve over time and preferred having a good base that included new tech so that when they go to next gen, they wonât have to try implementing all that stuff in and will instead just be able to polish and patch it up. Game was definitely built with RT in mind as if you take it out of the equation, it does look ââflatââ.
My understanding is that this is a platform so I think thatâs the reason trey chose to implement as much as they could early on even if the consoles could barely handle it, in order to not have to start from scratch next time.
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Yeah, sadly the performance of the PC makes it the worst port by an Xbox 1st party in quite some time. It felt like the game was just not ready. Settings not applying, crashes, low fpsâŚ
The argument that GT7 paint is flat out better is so wrong, there are many instances where GT7 looks so out of place, that the car looks fake. Whereas FMs more realistic albeit a slightly washed-out look makes it worse in some scenarios but overall, a better presentation because the cars always fit into the environment and is not overly shiny.
Also, the comparison becomes meaningless without comparing the actual physics modelling of the cars, FM physics and tire model especially is on par or better than some sims, multiply that with over 20+ cars and it becomes quite taxing. GT7 has a lot of spare horsepower saved there.
What I have a hard time understanding is how FH5 could look so good running cross gen, while FM running solely on next gen with seemingly lower environmental detail, worse trees(they opted against using Playgrounds tech) couldnât look as good. If raytracing affected performance so much, theyâd would have better off just using RTAO, and then patching in reflections at a later date, them marketing the game as a full on rebuild, and then relying on raytracing to prove their point put them in a hole. The game with FH5 level trackside details with RTAO for lighting would have made it look amazing.
FM will get much better because the modern solution they chose overtime will be more performant, even though the current results are not great. Itâs a shame they couldnât get the complete visual package, with Global Illumination supposed to come sometime later, even on consoles.
On another point, I was watching the Forza weekly streams and a dev said that there is now a separate team that just works on the engine/core technologies at Turn 10, updating the engine for both forza and fable. Also sounded like Playground is a lot more independent now because they have proven themselves with their success, so Turn 10 doesnât assist as much anymore.
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A lot of unrealistic expectations with regards to Forza Motosport.
Need PS5 Pro, stat!
But really, I have yet to play that game. I heard itâs pretty fun and the game still holding in top 20.
As expected, the âremasterâ is barely different to the existing PS5 enhanced patch. 
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