The streaming comparison falls apart when you consider hardware requirements. Netflix and disney don’t require specific hardware, most televisions will offer both. so to have access to both their shows it is as easy as subbing to one for a month, cancelling, then subbing to the other. So exclusives don’t matter in this example b/c I have access to both without spending $600 usd in hardware.
Gaming has the hardware hurdle. If I want access to all exclusive games, I have to spend more on hardware. which is not great for me.
Maybe cell phones are a good comparison. I have an iphone. I get a new one every 4-5 years. when it is time to get a new phone I just get a new iphone. I don’t do any comparison shopping to see how the latest iphone stacks up against the latest samsung andoid phone. My phone does what I want, I know how to use it, and I consider it a fair value. I figure both products are basically the same so stick with what I know.
I bet you, there are plenty of people who know the ins and outs of these phones and would tell me one is better than the other. But to me they are just commodities. Essentially the same thing. Stick with what I know.
Now bring this back to gaming. To your average person, the xbox and ps are the same thing. And they go with what they know. Us on this forum are the people that know the ins and outs of these devices and recognize the differences that are important to us. The consoles are commodities to the average person.
To your point about differentiation. This is the key for next gen. Based on what we know now, the ps is going to be the same as a ps5 with better specs. The xbox is going to be the same thing PLUS provide access to the pc ecosystem. that seems like a big differentiator. The pc hybrid will offer a clearly different experience to what we have seen the last few generations. But its a tall task. they have to nail it.
God I actually hate streaming for this. You want to watch all the monsterverse? Don’t just subscribe to HBO Max, get Apple TV for one exclusive show. You like Batman? You subscribed to the WB owned platform to watch all DC originals? Well **** you, go subscribe to Amazon for the awesome golden age inspired Cape Crusader.
Actually doesn’t everyone hate this? Like I swear unlike gamers normal people have gotten fed up with all the various different streaming platforms and originals. I just see complaints about originals fatigue these days.
Everyone else responded similarly so not much to add. Just to clarify that everytime I referred to growth or a lack thereof wasn’t singling out Xbox specifically, but referencing the entire market. Xbox Cloud Gaming and it’s growth is only a part of that. Nothing really changes that there’s been incredible growth in cloud gaming (what started as a nascent market), but the console market is struggling to grow in users. Revenue and spending continues to rise, but consoles are struggling to find new users.
That said Microsoft is Microsoft so they don’t (often) share numbers but instead focus on engagement (which actually Netflix now also does)). Engagement for cloud gaming has continuously gone up. Yeah it’s tied to Game Pass subs but it’s also an entire platform that for Xbox didn’t exist until 2020 and didn’t come out of beta until late 2025. Last year also saw Cloud Gaming expand to purchased games & become accessible through all three GP tiers. Regardless of how well Xbox is doing particularly, growth is in the cloud gaming market and they should be doing what they can to be able to reap benefits from that.
As it’s been said, exclusives on streaming platforms is a whole different situation. There’s no hardware requirement and you can access the streaming service on anything. You also don’t buy any streaming originals. They’re all tied to the subscription. Some originals you CAN buy after the a certain amount of time and when this is the case you can buy those originals on any device and through multiple storefronts. Netflix (and the likes) itself are also JUST the subscription service. Except for Amazon. You can’t buy other first or third party games. You pay for the subscription and that’s IT. We also don’t really know if originals are doing much. The streaming market always has new competition popping up with new originals. It seems more about the overall library. That’s how Netflix stays relevant and they really only got relevant by being first.
Also I can’t speak for your circles, but yes PC gamers are just a bigger consumer base. There’s some interesting Financials from CDPR on a thread somewhere and the sales split has only become more increasingly in PCs favor. The big story now is Sony’s own Marathon being bigger on PC than console. And yes Mobile is already significantly bigger… I mean the attention economy is something that’s even brought up in earnings calls (that’s a problem for Microsoft beyond gaming), but there’s also still just more people on mobile phones playing games. Xbox is targeting them with cloud gaming but also has desires for a mobile game store and more mobile games. There’s also a reason why Xbox worked so hard to bring Genshin Impact, Zzz, and Wuthering Waves over. Plus smartphones are contbhinibg to improve. Apple has already flexed being able to run low end AAA games. Though, I’m not really sure what the point here is. The attention economy contributes greatly to the fact that consoles aren’t growing. People addicted to Tik Tok are even less likely to buy a console than they are a cloud gaming sub.
Overall again the growth refers to the entire markets. Consoles aren’t growing which is why we see the squeeze that we do. There is currently a lot of rapid growth in cloud and steady growth on PC and mobile with all three having projected growth and the latter two already having much larger consumerbases. Xbox should definitely be expanding to these markets and pushing to grow along with them.
Yeah, I started rotating between them last year, as opposed to subbing to the majority of them at the same time. The only one I’ll keep as is, is HBO, as I got the lifetime deal for 50% off, so I only pay €7 for their premium plan.
I’ve also started collecting 4K movies, though just the ones I consider classics.
Yep I’m subbed or have access (some are free in the UK, others I get free - or pay a little to up the free tier I get - with Sky) to practically every streaming platform bar reality TV only ones.
All so when I want to watch stuff with my limited free time, I’m not sat there forced to watch ads or trying to re-sub or register while getting it in the neck from family that it’s taking too long - given half the apps take too bloody long to open anyway lol.
It costs quite a bit even with the careful bundling etc plus the odd threat to leave some so I get an offer - all so I know if a series or film is airing I can watch it without any issues, something I could mostly do a decade ago just with Sky itself grr.
Netflix, BBC iPlayer, ITVX, Disney+, HBO Max, Prime Video, 4 Player, Discovery+, Apple TV, Paramount+ and MGM+, and that’s without 5, Peacock and U stuff I can access via Sky (plus obviously some ITV, BBC and Channel 4 stuff and Sky Cinema / Atlantic).
11 streaming services (of which only 2 do I get fully free), 14 to 16 if you count the services I get the content of through Sky’s usual front end.
It’s fucking insane, the money on the services themselves is actually not huge but I only get that price because I pay a ton to Sky, but most annoying is the figuring out which service the thing you want to watch is on, getting the app loaded and finding it.
I thought my Chromecast was the answer as it could centralise all the apps I have on my TV with some I don’t, but it’s not perfect as many aren’t fully integrated (so their libraries aren’t searchable from the home screen)…
Maybe its time for people to accpet that core games are going to grow to more than 100 million consoles each platform. Speaking frankly that should be more than a big enough userbase too & also remarkable given all the other forms of entermiant out there
People look over that the PS5 would have sold even more if not for COVID & where it supply was limited for nearly 3 years with consoles being sold for ridiculous sums on ebay. PS5 life time sales could be well into 90 million unit sold, if not for COVID
Like I say I don’t see the kids of today having much interest or willing to pay for the type of AAA games Sony or Xbox look to make. They’re more than happy to have us parents pay for their contracts while playing on TikTok or some cheap simple mobile fluff. They are not going to spend £70 on a single game, unlike a core gamer would on the PC or console.
And you could say the same for a phone comparison. But one can aska simple question why would someone look to choose Netflix over Disney Plus? Let’s not make out that exclusive, don’t have a role to play. Gaming always had a hardware burden even on PC, how many of the master race have a top spec gaming PC compare to a notepad or PC with integrated graphics?
I was one of those people who borrowed over a grand from barclays bank so I could have a new PC capable of playing Half-Life (those were the days) where the only reason I bought a PS2 was to play a humble game called ICO after being flooed playing the game on my friends PS2 & whille was a huge Mega Drive fan asked mum, my gran & auntie for a Snes for my birthday only to play SF2
Exclusives play a role for me, even if I just bought a 2nd console just to play the odd exclusives like I did for the PS5. Lost of features help mind & exclusives just play a part in it. I genuinely had friends who only bought a Xbox One after the BC programme was demonstrated
Actually the success of the PS5 and Series X|S despite the economic and supply chain issues that have been a problem since 2020, really shows why it doesn’t really matter anymore. Console gamers are locked in and willing to upgrade at higher premiums. Despite all the problems sales for both consoles have remained relatively flat compared to last generation. The original Playstation did 100m sales, the PS2 is like idk 160m or something (they keep adding a few million), the PS3 is almost 90 million (and that was after an awful overpriced launch), and the PS4 was almost 120 million sales. Aside from the PS2 which is a clear outlier console sales for Playstation haven’t changed much for each generation.
[quote=“gpldavie, post:770, topic:23331”]
Maybe its time for people to accpet that core games are going to grow to more than 100 million consoles each platform. Speaking frankly that should be more than a big enough userbase too & also remarkable given all the other forms of entermiant out there
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Actually this wording is a bit confusing. Are you saying that there are or are not going to be more than 100 million console users on each platform? And then… why? What we’ve all said is that growth is the problem and consoles have remained stable, but for the gaming business to grow (to match rising costs and just be a for profit business with shareholders that need to see growth) Xbox will HAVE to look to other markets. Console exclusives in this sense can only serve to keep existing console gamers happy and realistically only a specific minority of them who even care about exclusives.
[quote=“gpldavie, post:771, topic:23331”]
And you could say the same for a phone comparison. But one can aska simple question why would someone look to choose Netflix over Disney Plus? Let’s not make out that exclusive, don’t have a role to play.
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Quick aside, no this analogy still doesn’t work. 1) customers pick Netflix for the larger more varied library and customers pick Disney if this just love Disney and want as much Disney content as posible. 2) Subscriptions on a month to month basis have a much lower cost and zero commitment. Someone could subscribe to both for less than $40 or pay for Netflix and sign into a friend’s Disney+ or swap paying for both once a month (Netflix January and Disney+ February). There’s also no additional cost.
That’s the whole thing. A Playstation exclusive has to convince someone to drop hundreds of dollars AND buy that game. Your latter comments say similar ideas that exclusives aren’t going to bring in new audiences. You also only speak from your experience, but actual analytics show PC gamers as a larger platform even among AAA games like Cyberpunk. Exclusives were “a” influencing factor on past sales, but whatever that factor was is even smaller now with gamers mostly just having chosen their platforms and sticking to that.
It took 6 years for the PS4 to sell 100 million the PS5 isn’t far behind that figure & that’s with 3 years are rampant supply chain issues to do with COVID. One can play it all we want, its Xbox thats seen a massive drop off with sales, not SONY or Nintendo . I feel maybe Activision was too BIG & Xbox lost focus because before then hardware sales were relatively healthy
Most people I know pick Netflix for their exclusives just like going with Disney Plus for Star Wars; You don’t see either saying we’re sick of fanboys , exclusives are old hate for a bygone era era anyone can have The Crown or The Bad Batch. Lets face it if Xbox signed up GTA 6 as a Window’s & Xbox exclusives, Xbox fans would be cheering from the rooftops
For me trying to get a PC gamer into consoles or a die hard console gamer into PC . Is like trying to get a bike rider to fall in love with the car, it’s just not going to happen no matter what exclusives are on offer. Though I must admit to buying a new PC just to play Half-Life, but that was at a time when I was young free & single & just gave mum & dad £5 a week lodge as my only outgoings
I’m a big time gamer (don’t say that to be hard or anything) where my 1st console was a Intellivision & Sir Clive wonder machine the ZX Spectrum really propelled me into falling in with gaming . It’s a serious hobby for me, along with a love of football
Exclusives count for a lot, but are not the be & end all. We have 2 kids & Im seeing with them & their mates a big fall off with gaming that Xbox or Sony offer. They are happy with TikTok & aren’t going to pay £70 per game, like a core gamer will, She still pays for their mobile phone contracts for crying out loud, it drives me nuts where both are grown up LOL
I really don’t see the causal who are more than happy with a phone having any interest in the gaming Xbox or SONY offer with their big AAA games costing £60 to £70 when they’re more than happy with TikTok & a cheap game off Play Store.In fact I think more kids now ask for a Dart board, rather than a gaming console
I feel Xbox should just look after the core gamer & other than the last couple of years, they’ve been going a good job on that front
I’m no programmer or anything very familiar with the field of OS, but these recent updates give me that feeling that these could have been done easily or at least sooner than the length of wait we endured if the focus was shifted. Perhaps the focus was detoured by Phil/Sarah on something that is more aligned to the marketing of Xbox Everywhere, hence PC gets plenty of boost. Asha may not be familiar with gaming as much as them, but she probably believe that fans’ demand will be the right course of action to take.
It’s probably why one of the devs said that she never felt hyped to work on them. Stein also got a newfound energy that feels like a usual twitter poster. Like he is a lot more active and excited about the future, posting Goku’s warming up to indicate they have more to come. Time will tell, but right now, it hasn’t looked this bright in a while.
Doesn’t that prove the point that exclusives don’t do much though?
The PS5 has had sod all exclusives since launch that weren’t also available for (or later back ported to) the PS4.
Yet the PS5 is doing fine despite Sony’s slowest first party output in years.
Also, the split of the console market vs Xbox hasn’t really changed either, with the Series console share pretty similar to the One - proving everyone is just buying the new version of their existing console when they finally upgrade, and exclusives aren’t really moving the needle
Again this is personal experience and that of the people around you. For example, if I used the same evidence then everyone I know subscribes to both Disney+ & Netflix because it’s not that expensive. They subscribe to Disney+ for the comprehensive Disney catalog (not new originals) and Netflix for the large variety library.
[quote=“gpldavie, post:774, topic:23331”]
It took 6 years for the PS4 to sell 100 million the PS5 isn’t far behind that figure & that’s with 3 years are rampant supply chain issues to do with COVID. One can play it all we want, its Xbox thats seen a massive drop off with sales, not SONY or Nintendo . I feel maybe Activision was too BIG & Xbox lost focus because before then hardware sales were relatively healthy
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Xbox hasn’t seen a “massive drop off” in sales though. That’s just vibes. Their peak was 80 million with the 360, then it went down to a stable 50 to 60 million over 7 years with the Xbox One and the Xbox Series consoles have kept pace with that even from estimates on the low end. Take Two estimated about 50 million Series consoles sold at the start of this year. More modest estimates put it at 40 to 45 million sales.
It took 6 years for the PS4 to sell 100 million the PS5 isn’t far behind that figure & that’s with 3 years are rampant supply chain issues to do with COVID.
You can use this exact same statement for Xbox. At the low end of estimates there’s been some fall off, but that can be attributed to anything. Xbox never pushed for upgrades like PS and didn’t do a Pro model this Gen. Then at the high end of estimates Xbox Series sales are incredibly good.
People compare Xbox to PS and Switch (Nintendo’s most successful single console ever), but Xbox has never even cracked 100 million. The 360 golden generation that did everything right still ending up getting outsold by a PS3 that did everything wrong. It’s just how it is. At this stage the consumer bases are even more static.
People keep acting like the Xbox Series consoles are the Wii U (sold less than 15 million in 5 years ), and also keep forgetting that just before the switch Nintendo had the catastrophic Wii U. In comparison Xbox Series Consoles HAVE remained stable. Also, actually yeah, no, Xbox has had the least fall off in sales. PS peaked with 160+ million and has now dropped more than 40 million with their next most successful console (when don’t yet know where PS5 will end up) being less than 120 million. Single hardware the Switch is Ninrendo’s new peak, but before Nintendo had a strategy of both a handheld and home console. Their best was the Wii selling 100 million and DS 150 million. Having on the Switch and it only selling 150+ million is a MASSIVE drop off. The generation before the switch was even worse though with again the WiiU at less than 15 million (FIFTEEN) and the 3DS at around 80 million. Xbox in general has remained more stable in hardware sales. It’s just also had lower peaks and stable is still consistently less than PS and Nintendo (combined sales at less). That’s been the case since the original Xbox launched and will remain the case unless they stop playing by Nintendo and Sony’s rule book and make up their own rules.
I think Microsoft and Xbox were looking for more growth (they did everything right and started with a very aggressive strategy leveraging the Series X, Series S, and Game Pass), but we’re long past that. The Activision purchase did also cost them. I agree because Phil himself said that he wasn’t prepared for how taxing it’d be. But that cost wasn’t some massive chunk of console sales. It was more brand value and that prestige. 2022 ended up being a dead year for Xbox and very very quiet. During the aquistion Microsoft also pushed the narrative that they NEEDED ABK to stay relevant in gaming (to win ABK). It worked to get ABK but made people think less of Xbox. It’s still a major problem. Gamers online won’t stop crashing out. Xbox is making Microsoft more money than every, but online the story kept being that Microsoft would sell all of Xbox off in the next five years. That’s where I think exclusives to an extent could have value for Xbox. They can help bring the brand back under control. They can provide that prestige. I think that’s what Sharma as a marketer is here for and is looking to best do. But exclusives never really rose consoles up to huge levels of success and now they’re even less effective especially for Playstation & Xbox who can’t control costs and charge as much as Nintendo. Just think about how much it would have cost to make Forza Horizon 6 vs Mario Kart World and then remember that the latter has a HIGHER starting price.
Sharma said she made a dedicated team to deal respond to “fan feedback”. I think it’s as simple as that. These are low hanging fruits, but Xbox software engineers also have a lot to work on between next gen, cloud gaming, PC, and everything else behind the scenes. Phil and Sarah similarly created a dedicated team for backwards compatibility. We’re now soon getting what they’ve been working on. It’s hard to say what resources go where. For the Xbox Everywhere stuff, it doesn’t feel like things have slowed down on PC or on cloud. But the PC app has matured a lot and cloud is out of beta, so maybe they just don’t need as many people on them? Or maybe Helix is entering it’s final stages and can be fine without some people. Or maybe the backwards compatibility team. Or maybe Sharma just pulled like one person off each team to create a new one and boom there’s a new fan feedback action committee! Whose to say. The updates so far have been low hanging fruit. I can both see how it’d be easy for new blood focused on priotizing making the community happy can easily address them, and I can see how old blood focused on the long term vision chose not to prioritize them.
Well I can only give personal experience or use friends & family. At the end of the day what is clear is that Xbox consoles sales have dropped off a cliff, while SONY ploughs along at a steady pace
Series X sales are well behind that of the Xbox One & that’s with no 2nd hand sales, always online disasters or costing £100 for a far less powerful console
2025 was the worst year on record for in the UK for Xbox sales & lets not kid ourselves otherwise, it wasn’t much better in the USA & the less said about Europe the better
And sure Xbox could have sold more if not for COVD but the PS5 could have sold millions more if not for supply issues & for me I don’t look to compare Nintendo to either Xbox or SONY as I see the Switch 1/2 as just a continuation of their HH systems & they’ve always sold millions & been very profitable
Also, I’m not one of these ones who thinks the Series X is another Wii. The Series X as sold well & also has an healthy userbase engagement in terms of buying 3rd party games, something which was always a issue on Nintendo consoles, but 2025 was a poor year for Xbox in terms of not just hardware sales but also image & branding IMO & just couldn’t contrine on like that.
Last year was the only time I ever felt Xbox was going to call it a day on console hardware & that really hurt & upset me a lot. Pathetic as that might sound, from a grown man with 2 kids in his late 40’s
yeah, I figured it was all hands on deck to get helix and xbox mode working perfectly. Didn’t they used to do xbox updates monthly? Its a balancing act. A person could think if next gen fails it is over for xbox hardware. Everyone work on that. Or a person can think, if we piss off current customers it is over for xbox hardware. Put some people on current gen stuff.
), and also keep forgetting that just before the switch Nintendo had the catastrophic Wii U. In comparison Xbox Series Consoles HAVE remained stable. Also, actually yeah, no, Xbox has had the least fall off in sales. PS peaked with 160+ million and has now dropped more than 40 million with their next most successful console (when don’t yet know where PS5 will end up) being less than 120 million. Single hardware the Switch is Ninrendo’s new peak, but before Nintendo had a strategy of both a handheld and home console. Their best was the Wii selling 100 million and DS 150 million. Having on the Switch and it only selling 150+ million is a MASSIVE drop off. The generation before the switch was even worse though with again the WiiU at less than 15 million (FIFTEEN) and the 3DS at around 80 million. Xbox in general has remained more stable in hardware sales. It’s just also had lower peaks and stable is still consistently less than PS and Nintendo (combined sales at less). That’s been the case since the original Xbox launched and will remain the case unless they stop playing by Nintendo and Sony’s rule book and make up their own rules.