Microsoft told CNBC that while the company does set ambitious goals, the reported 30% profit margin target was incorrect

The company reportedly asked its gaming division in 2023 to target profit margins of 30%, according to Bloomberg, which cited people familiar with the matter.

The goal was a significant jump from the 12% profit margin Xbox reached in 2022, as revealed in court documents, and well above the average video-game industry standard of 17% to 22%, analysts told Bloomberg.

Microsoft told CNBC that while the company does set ambitious goals, the reported 30% profit margin target was incorrect.

Microsoft has raised prices on its aging lineup of flagship consoles twice over the past year. Nintendo and Sony also announced price hikes for their respective consoles in August.

3 Likes

profit margin vs. accountability margin is corporate obfuscation. Still, Jason said it’s 30% for all but is for many.

4 Likes

Jason ‘‘PlayStation’’ Schreier at the other place says it is still indeed 30% unlike what’s being said here. Take that as you will I guess. Maybe the way you look at things can mean it is true and untrue at the same time, but I’m not expert.

6 Likes

I trust Jason, he isn’t the type of person to put out misinformation about this, but hopefully this report means that Microsoft doesn’t have this insane expectation on all studios and just big ones like ABK, still insane to have that pressure on them too but at least they have huge IPs very capable of meeting that 30%.

2 Likes

From what I recall of the FTC trials, Activision was exceeding that 30% easily, think 40s to 50s.

As for trust, why would you place more trust in an external person that has less accessibility to actual information than the company?

7 Likes

Because actions speak louder than words and Microsoft’s moves for a while now clearly show a pivot towards trying to achieve the highest possible profit margin even if it means burning the goodwill it took the Xbox people nearly a decade to regain, they didn’t even bother to deny the original report right away, I just hope that with this new report it means that some studios don’t have that wild expectation on them.

2 Likes

I rather wait for official news rather than whatever comes out of an insider’s mouth.

Cause most of the time they are proven wrong in a more consistent basis. I anticipaded this to continue for a while.

I never really believed every single studios of theirs would be forced to hit said margins.

Also, what are you on about witrh goodwill? You mean exclusives? Those are still a thing, whether its timed, launch or not its on them and their studios to decide. Is it incentives for those in the ecosystem? Game pass is there with three types of subscription tiers for those that want to use it, that’s is also not counting their massive backward compatibility program and the promise to keep going forward with this, then their is play anywhere which has been consistently proven to have the best idea for the ecosystem by miles.

Sorry dang, but they way you went about that talk felt kinda dishonest, sure they will be critized like any other out there for their bussiness decisions but you cannot deny their efforts within the overall platform.

2 Likes

Seems Obsidian also aknowledged the 30% profit thing, tho they said it’s not like they were pointed at with a gun, it’s a goal for now, a dumb goal if you ask me, do anyone but Valve manage to get that much?

But from my maybe greedy perspective, it could be a good thing in the long run, studios should research and focus on what the people want, Keeper, South of Midnight or Avowed recently, were pretty much dead on arrival.

I’m not saying they should try to make something they aren’t good at just because it’s trending, but there should be a mix on what they can and want to do, and what the people want. The RPG genre for example has a LOT of potential on PC specially, but the artistic style or the tone from Avowed was just not it.

1 Like

IIRC, That wasn’t from an insider, but actual court evidence.

1 Like

Mostly commenting about the individual putting more trust on Jason than on official people saying what is actually happening.

Sorry if it seemed like i was talking about the former instead of the latter.

2 Likes

The truth is probably something in the middle and more business nuanced than just “there is or isn’t XYZ hard margin that every aspect of the Xbox business has to meet.” I mean, Game Pass alone puts how a studio would even track that into question. I do think Xbox has had a really great year as a publisher, and I don’t want studios to be told not to release games like Keeper or South of Midnight or Age of Empires because they don’t sell as much as COD. That said is Microsoft being ambitious with gaming all bad? That’s also something probably more nuanced than a yes or no. We wouldn’t have Xbox Play Anywhere or Cloud Gaming if Microsoft wasn’t insistent on growing Xbox, but then we also wouldn’t have the Xbox Game Pass Ultimate price increase if Microsoft didn’t want to maximize profit margins. I think the idea of “bad will” is a little overblown though. Xbox hasn’t uniquely raised prices or closed studios. They aren’t acting outside of the industry norm. Arguably they’re now acting more inside conventional business pricing strategies, and I do think that’s because of the growth they’ve seen following the ABK aquistion. Also, likely because of the data they keep seeing. “Good will” hasn’t proven valuable to them. The Series S didn’t sell in droves and the internet was mad at it in spite of its budget pricing. Before the price increase Game Pass was “killing gaming” by being too much value for too low of a price, and really at $15 a month isn’t Xbox Game Pass Premium with cloud and PC games exactly the perfect middle ground of value those types wanted? Xbox also can’t really keep moneyhatting games and studios that aren’t going anywhere. I don’t think Microsoft and Xbox are without fault (the buck stops somewhere and I do hate that Microsoft called for a blanket cut to pump more money into the AI bubble), but as far as current economic and supply chain issues go they aren’t really being an outlier. Microsoft seems like any other for profit business with all the problems associated with that. I still prefer to game with Xbox because the ecosystem provides me the most value and the trajectory looks to expand that value. Time will tell how things play out, but this past year hasn’t exactly been Xbox personally stabbing me in the back. In fact it’s been a great year for me as a gamer on Xbox. I feel bad for people entering the ecosystem for the first time in this year where the prices are awful, but I feel bad for them no matter what console ecosystem they try to entire. I paid $300 for my Nintendo Switch, but any gamer trying to buy a Switch 2 is paying a lot more than that. Any gamer trying to buy a Switch 2 game at launch is paying $10 to $20 more per game. The same goes for Playstation (though I think a little less of a difference especially if you go for a cheaper model) and Xbox. At $30 a month Game Pass Ultimate is a more difficult decision, but since its launch every game has gone up a minimum of $10 at launch and they’ve really built up the day one GP launches (really built up first party), the overall library across console, PC, and Cloud (which wasn’t even there are launch), and they did add more benefits on top of that (which I think many of us don’t love, but looking at the charts now Fortnite remains the number #1 game so I think Fortnite Crew and Ubisoft backlog and COD day one is really valuable to a lot of gamers). There’s the studio closures, but game cancelations and studio closures have unfortunately been a very common story these past five years.

Knowing what a company does internally and how they make decisions is difficult. I do think Microsoft definitely has more hooks in Xbox post ABK. I think Microsoft has more ambitions for Xbox and they want to see more returns from Xbox. However, I don’t think that’s unilaterally a bad thing or that there’s a single criterion driving every decision now or that that criterion is completely unattainable for Xbox. I do think Microsoft as a public stock company is focused too much on shareholder value and short term growth like every other late stage capitalism stock company, but I don’t think they’re intentionally trying to sabatoge Xbox. The truth is probably something between what insiders and Microsoft is saying. It is also interesting to me that with the Blizzard interview the president of Blizzard was confused about the 30% number herself. Microsoft Gaming is now massive. I don’t see how it could be as simple as a single thing to blame for everything we don’t like that’s happening now (or everything we do like).

5 Likes

Hard to believe what was said in court or out, since part of the takeover was meant to bring competition to Sony seen little of that since the takeover.

What came out of court is exactly what is happening.

Spencer testified there was no console growth baked into the ABK acquisition model.

Satya Nadella reiterated everything MS does is about the cloud. He said he wants to do with Xbox what did with Office and put it everywhere. He said he wanted to compete as a publisher. He said that it made no economic sense to take games off other platforms. He said the goal was to put ABK games and Xbox games in more places.

And a whole year prior to that, Microsoft’s Brad Smith, their legal head, said that they will allow other stores on the next-gen Xbox console marketplace.

And if you look at it from a video game publisher lens Microsoft did boost their position among the top publishers. And given the higher margin goals they’re probably on pace to have a healthier business financially than they ever could have done with a console centric business.

3 Likes

What we are seeing currently is video games transitioning most likely to appear within televisions and pc without a need to download the product thanks to the cloud. That is what am understading from this whole thing as new tvs are now having xbox apps and potentially more in the coming years thanks to advances in cloud technology.

Also, don’t put too much backing when satya makes a comment regarding xbox, as while he has final say on stuff he also has understands that they have a big ecosystem and that they require value towards it in more way than just selling theirs games on competitior platforms like playstation, nintendo and other pc store markets, is less important than supporting their massive ecosystem by itself, especially now that xbox has integrated itself within the pc community of players thanks mostly to both play anywhere and game pass .

So while he says he wants everything everywhere he wants it to be moainly by use of xbox ecosystem than just steam or any other. So they will most likley be looking to still attrach many users to their ecosystem more so than ever.

Playstation and Nintendo effectively do not stand any chance of directly competing with xbox anymore, Steam, Epic, Gog and other pc storefronts are their main competitors now.

The sooner playstation ports more games everywhere the better, the same thing for nintendo.

Also, if folks think exclusivity in some form will die are kidding themselves, there will always be exclusivety, its just that the way its going to be used will be different. I personally think it will be somewhat similar to netflix, hbo max, disney plus type of exclusives in some way shape or form in the future but that’s just me in this line of thinking.

If they’re proceeding to make an Avowed 2, that kinda suggests it wasn’t DOA.

Hard to tell with the others, but seeing as they’re porting SoM to other platforms, it could have done well enough to warrant that investment.

When Satya talked about cloud , he said that has to do with streaming and how it’s used for save data to take your game across devices.

I believe him. Long term, like over the next 10-20 years, there’s a bigger market for what Xbox is doing than there is sticking with a proprietary gaming device as the center of the ecosystem.

Even Sony is taking steps in this direction. They decoupled the PS Portal. It’s a matter of time before they offer a device agnostic cloud streaming option.

If you say so.

There seems to be no competition to SONY and people seem to have turned on Xbox, Microsoft and now Windows Hope next year things will change for the 25th party

You make a very good point and are correct about being a bigger pulsihers mind I stand corrected on that one.

They are indeed mostly going according to plan. I just don’t personally think that the Office and Windows model can be applied 1 for 1 to the gaming business, but we’ll see how it pans out.

I think looking at how a lot of people are championing exclusivity and the backlashes to physical media being on the way out, and I guess pretty much every reaction to moves MS has made which are, let’s be honest, quite often too early, really shows us how gamers in general are like boomers; they don’t like change and hang on to what they know.

Gamers 20 and under are mostly not console gamers or have one because their parents bought it and they spend their time in one of the many GAAS that are popular with those age groups.

Gamers like ourselves, the hardcore crowds, are mostly in their 30s and above and we are an aging group. And let’s face it, we are the ones with the bigger wallets and are being milked for what we’re worth.

The reason why I don’t fully understand MS’ position is because it seems the people hang on for dear life to the console model is my age group and we’re the milk cow. So why are they letting the competition dry them out hoping to catch the next wave?

Nintendo and Sony are basically the oil businesses and MS is the one pushing for clean energy, that’s basically the best analogy I can find. We all knpw going green is the way to go, and funnily enough, I’m fully in with 2 EVs and smart house features to control my energy usage, but oil lobbying is so strong that the transition isn’t happening fast enough and so some of those companies that were investing in the future have to back track or close shop for the time being.

I know the entertainment market isn’t exactly the same, but I feel like a lot of the gamers hanging on to the model we know and the Digital Foundries of this world are lobbying for the status quo as that is what brings in the money right now.

How just wonder how MS will come out on the other side when all is said is done. It seems that at every step something bad happens (COVID, tarrifs, now RAM prices) and they can’t seem to catch a break!

2 Likes

It’s not if I say so. It’s what was said.

Satya Nadella’s statements in the FTC trial via Tom Warren / The Verge (June 2023)

I want to make it clear to the world that Microsoft is focused on cloud-first approaches. Teams, Windows 365, xCloud as the future… I want to basically use every opportunity to make cloud streaming more mainstream.

Just to make sure that it’s clear. Whenever I think about the cloud in the context of the Xbox pillars of content, cloud, and community, Xbox Live is part of the cloud. So even when you’re thinking about a console or a PC, the cloud is actually very integral to the experience. So it’s not just streaming alone when I think about the cloud. [/quote]

Microsoft lawyer: Will Microsoft forego sales of Call of Duty on PlayStation by withholding access?

Nadella: It makes no economic sense or no strategic sense. Our goal with Activision in particular, in their content and our content, is to get it on more platforms. That’s what we’ve done with Office and that’s what I want to do with gaming

Microsoft: Will you commit to continue delivering Call of Duty on PlayStation?

Nadella: 100 percent

Phil Spencer’s statements:

FTC: If Microsoft is going to grow, particularly in a business like console, it can grow by taking share from its competitors

Spencer: There’s no console growth in our [Activision] deal model.

FTC: Do you have any intention of this deal helping you climb out of the number three spot?

Spencer: In console, we do not.

One of the most harmful narratives for Xbox around all this was the idea that they were simply trying to paint a certain picture to get the deal across the finish line versus telling us exactly what they were doing. It’s not a coincidence that reality today matches what they were telling us 2-3 years ago.

6 Likes

MS is trying to own what’s next because there is no room for growth in the old business model. The number of console owners has been stagnant for nearly twenty years. The only way to grow out of third place in consoles would be to displace Sony or Nintendo, which basically comes down to hoping one or both make a serious misstep. That’s possible, but increasingly unlikely. I wouldn’t try to make a growth business plan in those bloody waters.

And seeing as how console sales just hit a record 30-year low in US sales in November suggests Microsoft was right to pivot. Whether or not their particular bets pay off remains to be seen, but I like what they’re doing with Game Pass, xCloud and Play Anywhere.

2 Likes