Lol let me be then. Don’t worry I will be fine lol.
I understand performance, we will see in real world what it will mean. I don’t say 25 tf pure computing because the calculation is special. I totaly undertand your skepticism. Lets settle it for now we will see later how his claims turn out.
To prevent any confusion, beware in minecraft demo, It is full path tracing not simple Ray Tracing. Way higher level.
XSX can do RT 4K60FPS but to which extent of RT we still don’t know yet.
For example for Forza 8 I think they will do hybrid RT for the majority of areas with a bit of rasterization on some things.
The term ray tracing is quite large. For example, a game can have ray traced shadows and you can still say it has Ray Tracing. RT can mean anything involving tracing rays. Shadows, reflections etc
There is rasterization, hybrid (rasterization & ray tracing) and there is Path Tracing.
For simple ray tracing, it shoots one ray from each pixel, but in path tracing , instead of sending out one ray it sends out tens, hundreds or even thousands of rays for each pixel to be rendered. It is far more power hungry.
Here Path Tracing is the superior RT since it encapsulates a lot of rendering techniques and is the best one stop problem solver.
I’m just wondering if XSX can do Path Tracing 4K60 on big games. Because afaik, path tracing is a big performance murderer (that is why we saw 1080p 30fps PT on minecraft but was done in 4 weeks by 1 guy) while when it comes to ray tracing it depends on what specifically they’re doing with it.
From DF actually, but it’s twice the pixels of 540p I was mistaken.
Wrt to minecraft RTX it wasn’t sub 30fps, it was ranging from 30 to 60 depending on the scene, which was actually quite good given that even the PC release had more optimization on top of that and they just ported it without making any optimizations.
Forgot to add also that Xbox One can do Ray Tracing too.
“We have some ray-traced shadows as part of our lighting techniques. In our maps, the shadows that are further away are ray-traced, whereas closer up they’re cascaded shadow maps, so they’re fully dynamic. That really allows us to have ultimately higher-quality shadows, the ray-traced shadows let us have shadows that get softer as they get farther away, from the shadow techniques,” said Rayner.
While Gears 5 doesn’t join those doubling down on ray tracing in 2019, Rayner alluded to the beginning of future ambitions. “It’s all in the GPU, compute-based, ray-traced shadows. This is earlier work, that works across all platforms, versus requiring you to have bought ray trace-specific GPU hardware. And so this works on the Xbox One, works on the Xbox One S, as well as the PC.”
Like I said RT term is quite large and we have still to wait to see how deep they can go on XSX.
I’m well aware of the different forms of ray tracing, including hybrid techniques and full on path tracing, and hybrid ray tracing does not mean only one ray is used at a time. The amount of rays is dependent on the quality of ray tracing the developers want to use. For example in BFV, the number of rays can range from 15% to around 40% of the native resolution when going from the low to ultra settings. Also no, we will not see a full on path tracing at 4K60 with a big AAA game. There’s a very good reason we are only seeing path tracing used in geometrically simpler games like Minecraft and Quake 2.
Last, that’s fine if you want to believe what you believe but I don’t think it’s appropriate to be telling other people this stuff as it’s fact when it’s not.
Sorry but with all due respect I don’t think it was inappropriate as long as I’m not inventing stuff of my own not officially claimed by MS Team. I’m just quoting the article, if you don’t believe it that’s fine too. No offense to you.
On the rest I totally agree with you on what you said on RT that is why I want to know too if and how it is achievable. How deep will it go and how big AAA games can beneficiate it. Also what you said about the geometry is right too because I noticed the same thing. We still have to see how big geometric complex games can run with the max of rt features. Only time will tell!
I think MS will leverage cloud computing for giving RT a boost to XSX in the future…
It is really too cost demanding for games for now. For next gen games we will see on each console how far they push RT and if a game more geometry complex than minecraft can be in full path tracing. For now we all have doubts but probably with cloud computing it will be achievable on big games.
It should be note that Minecraft is also a game that presumably has very little need for much costly texture computations, which would take away from RT based on the Hot Chips slides iirc. I’m sure if they could have shown Gears 5 running with path tracing, they would have.
ML might also enter the conversation at some stage too. Lowing RT quality can be sorted by good ML denoising algorithms. That is a VERY active area of current ML research too. Maybe even some room to grow towards path tracing a modern game environment someday?
Thanks for the clarification on minecraft. I remember now they said the stuttering was due to the 30fps encoding while the game’s frame rate was in flux.
Also in no way am I trying to say the demo isn’t impressive. It’s a strong statement to the RT capabilities of the system for sure.
Ratchet and clank didn’t have that much actual ray tracing though. As most of the objects were excluded. In Gran Turismo 7 we were only really seeing 1080p ray tracing and it was just reflections. Time will tell once we see how Devs are able to implement on the series x.
On the other side we haven’t seen a game actually running on series x from Microsoft. However, its really hard to compare the two as Sony really hasn’t much from a technical standpoint. We know what the series x can theoretically do. The same can’t be said from Sony which at this point in the game is odd.
Yeah its annoying we don’t know the technical specs from Sony, and its odd we haven’t seen something running on the series x when we know Phil and many others have them at home and use them regularly. I don’t even need to see anything new running on a series x id settle for gears 5 running via backwards compatibility. I just want to see something running on the system.
All these ‘‘this game won’t have 4K on system A’’ ‘‘this game won’t have RT on system B’’ ‘‘this game is 60fps on system A’’ stuff is annoying and stupid to me.
Let’s just wait for the Digital Foundry reviews. We were too fast to make conclusions with The Medium too. It often feels like console war ammo instead of honest interest.
You mean Sony oriented devs or Matt who is currently working with Stadia and was working on PS games years ago? Matt also said “I would consider 15% or more power gap as significant” then when specs came out being 18% at very minimum they started claiming how gap is the smallest ever. Idk do the math yourself and see which gap will allow you to do more with that extra power, gap between X1 and PS4 was 530Gflops GCN, PS4 Pro and X1X was 1800Gflops GCN , and gap between PS5 and XSX is 2400GFlops GCN equivalent performance at very minimum. On top of that you have VRS that offers additional 10-30% of performance that XSX has and PS5 doesn’t. Also that gap is based on PS5 peak performance for system that is variable and likely will stick between 9-10TF real world performance.
Only time you see parity will be when dev refuses to utilise full power and goes explicitly for parity as Ubisoft has been doing across multiple generations.
Eh, lots of ppl might still be wondering what consoles/games to buy at launch and might not wanna wait til after has had time to test them all post-launch.